mommy_made_of_nails: Woo yeah!
So let's see, right now the only title taking place in the rebooted DCNU is Justice League #1, right? This Wednesday we'll get a fresh batch of stories from the new 52 (like Morrison's Supes!), but for now we really don't know too much of the reboot/relaunch's ramifications yet (also bonus points for alliteration).
prooker pointed out something real interesting about a connection between the old DCU and the DCNU in Flashpoint #5. Take it away!
prooker: Spoilers Beware! The big twofer splash page of Flashpont #5 had a mysterious lady that (to the best of my knowledge) is a completely new character.
mommy_made_of_nails: She's sort of like a cosmic Madame Web, telling the Flash as he reshapes reality that a new 'Verse is being made with slight variations.
prooker: She makes her big deus-ex-machina turning the old DCU into the new by fusing together the 3 former imprints of DC's line: Vertigo, Wildstorm, and the DCU while also inexplicably placing Grifter right next to Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman.
mommy_made_of_nails: And cyborg as a leading man in the Justice League.
prooker: It's a very strange move by DC to specifically make an old strand of the old universe to be continued into the new. It's really counter-intuitive. Isn't their goal to create a new universe? Why drag this new deadweight along with it?
mommy_made_of_nails: I imagine it's for 2 reasons.
1) It's a convenient - kind of cheap, but this kind of thing always is - way out if this if the whole reboot falls flat, a holdover that would allow the writers to restore the DCU to it's old state if things just don't work out.
And more importantly 2) it's a way for the writers to impose a stricter regard for continuity on themselves, because historically that's been a big problem over at DC. As prooker pointed out to me, this space lady appears in the background of Justice League #1, at a high school football game featuring a pre-Cyborg Cyborg as star quarterback
prooker: It would be really great if she was just a really huge high-school football fan.
mommy_made_of_nails: Wouldn't it though?
Having her appear in some function - most likely as a kind of behind-the-scenes seer/prophet - in each of these new titles may help establish interconnectivity and structure to the DCNU, which to us (and probably the writers) is a wild, uncharted territory. OR it could just be really imposing and off-putting.
prooker: Yeah, she's also in a few other previews I've seen (Animal Man for one).
mommy_made_of_nails: Maybe she's Grant Morrison.
prooker: Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
I'm not gonna lie I think that part of it, inserting her into every 52 #1 is pretty cool. Has anything been so unitive among so many titles before?
mommy_made_of_nails: I doubt it, maybe for a crossover event but never in something actually important.
prooker: That was a sick backhand burn.
mommy_made_of_nails: They better get some ointment for that burn, son.
prooker: But yeah, I know they're just gonna end up resolving her mysterious appearance in the next event title, but wouldn't it be really cool if she just stayed in the backgrounds of every DC comic for years to come?
Just a voyeuristic spectre (is he still in the DCU?) that really likes comics, JUST LIKE US. Even the bad ones.
mommy_made_of_nails: Oh man I never thought of it like that, though. She'd be like Bat-Mite from Brave and the Bold.
prooker: OH SNAP, BREAK TIME.
10 MINUTES.
ADVENTURE TIME IS ON.
mommy_made_of_nails: GODDAMN IT I HAVE NO TV.
prooker: Gender bending episodeee! Cake the cat and Fionna the human!
mommy_made_of_nails: #greenwithenvy.
This is going in the post, right?
prooker: Totes.
*10-15 minutes later*
Ok back, that was a great episode. Highlights include: Neil Patrick Harris as Prince Gumball and Fionna wearing Sailer Moon's Dress.
AND LORD MONOCHROMICORN.
Seriously f DC wanted to totally sell me on the new 52 they should really release an Adventure Time Comics #1
mommy_made_of_nails: GAAAAH. I want it. Both the episode and the comic.
prooker: Away from cartoons and back to comics though. So since we only have one issue of the new DCU out, what did you think of the Justice League?
mommy_made_of_nails: It had some nice moments, the buddy cop dynamic between Green Lantern and Batman was nice, but honestly it seemed pretty inconsequential. It didn't feel like what the flagship of the DCNU should be.
It lacked gravitas, y'know?
prooker: Yeah if their mission was to be big and bold and different they completely miffed on that one. I can see a small amount of new readers wanting to read this after the first issue, specifically those who saw the GL, Batman, and Supes movies though. But honestly it's also a problem of the monthly serial format, with not every writer being capable to fit what feels like a full story into 20-30 something pages.
mommy_made_of_nails: It doesn't take a master craftsmen to make a big, exciting story under those parameters though.
I was gonna use Mark Waid's Daredevil #1 as an example of something feeling new and fresh but I remembered that Waid is a master craftsman. You get the idea though.
prooker: Well anyways that's one of the big problems with being a newcomer to comics, in an industry that relies on creative talent over marketing. Wait did i just say that ahahaha.
mommy_made_of_nails: HAHAHA, because that's not what the DCNU is at all.
I do like the prospect of this mysterious lady bringing the ol' fashioned omniscient narrator back to comics. The internal monologue caption box is criminally overused. But I didn't see that in Justice League #1. It was same-old-same-old in every respect.
prooker: What I did like from JL #1 was the overall lighthearted tone. Geoff Johns does not shy away from gore in his work, and his biggest success Green Lantern is based on the premise of a huge, dark, operatic cop gun battles.
IN SPACE.
So it's good to see that he is taking a conscious shift from that, and also his obsession with continuity which he just can't mine from anymore.
mommy_made_of_nails: Yeah it'll be interesting to see what Johns does now that he can't fall back on the obscure continuity references that have defined his comics, it's uncharted land for reader and writer alike.
Something that has surprised me for a while now is how hush-hush the DC editorial has been about the ramifications of the reboot. Like what exactly is changed? I thought initially that they were just maintaining a secret well, but now we're officially in the new 52 and we still really don't know what's different
prooker: Sure we do, Superman has no underwear.
mommy_made_of_nails: I wonder if that's true under his costume too...
prooker: That's the Superman for this new generation. But i think they've said a lot about whats new and different in the DCU.
mommy_made_of_nails: Fill me in! I don't know these things.
prooker: It's not a total reboot because some elements do stay the same. Batman and Green Lantern being the biggest ones to stay almost completely untouched. But other than those notable two it's almost a complete scratch really.
Also Barbara Gordon got her legs back.
mommy_made_of_nails: How Barbara Got Her Legs Back.
But the editorial said that many previous stories are still in continuity - one of them being The Killing Joke. How is that reconciled?
prooker: That's whats been hush-hush, but I'm sure the new #1's will fill us in soon enough
mommy_made_of_nails: Honestly the impression I get is almost that they themselves don't know, that they're making it up as they go along. Which can definitely be a bad thing, leading to the same kinds of continuity messes that partially necessitated this event. But it can also be a good thing, leading to a looser, more interesting mode of storytelling than we've seen in comics for at least two decades. And I'm sure just as Post-Crisis gradually reincorporated the erased Silver Age elements, so too will the DCNU bring back stories theoretically booted from the current canon.
prooker: I don't know if you're giving them enough credit on this, the way I hear these new stories that were picked were specific pitches from writers about stories they really wanted to tell.
mommy_made_of_nails:
Writers like JT Krul.
prooker:
Yes.
I'm sure they've at least got a certain foresight for at least a year.
mommy_made_of_nails: One would hope so. I can see this reboot lasting for a long time, perhaps as long as the first Crisis and now. Certain things will change - I'm betting that within 2 years all the major players (read: Supes) will be back to their iconic costumes - but this could have staying power if the fanboys are down. With all the negative internet feedback, one has to wonder, though. Will they be? And will that be enough? Because DC editorial's goal of attracting new readers will definitely not be met. Not with this as a business model.
prooker: It's really disheartening to see so much pessimism about all this though. Wouldn't it be awesome if this all just turned out all right?
mommy_made_of_nails: I'm not so much pessimistic about the content, my only complaints so far are the shitty Jim Lee costumes. And Grifter. Hell Cyborg on the Justice League could be pretty cool. My beef is with what this reboot was really about, the whole readership is dying thing. If this is the best they can do than superhero comics are fucked. I mean of course not really, Warner Bros and Disney will keep them afloat for the intellectual property, but don't you wish the industry could actually sustain itself? And let's pray to god Superhero movies don't eventually go the way of the Western, because then WB and Disney might actually consider letting them go under when the publishers can't pull their weight.
prooker: I think we're drifting off into another larger and broader conflict that could take hundreds of pages to really get into, even if it is extremely relevant to this new initiative.
mommy_made_of_nails: THE AVENGERS INITIATIVE.
Sorry I had to.
prooker: That's ok, I'll just pretend Samuel L. Jackson found his way into our discussion.
mommy_made_of_nails: In a perfect world, in a perfect world.
PROOKER YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY SUPER-HERO
prooker: So let's leave it be and say we'll see. I honestly hope all 52 books kick so much ass.
mommy_made_of_nails: Me too. Except Grifter. Fuck that noise.
prooker: I would write a Grifter ongoing.
mommy_made_of_nails: Also, Static Shock should have his own comic. With his old costume. Written by Spike Lee.
prooker: I may hate Spike Lee more than Grifter.
mommy_made_of_nails: Grifter written by Spike Lee.
prooker: The Perfect Storm.
Alright to wrap this thing up, which books in the new 52 are you gonna be picking up?
mommy_made_of_nails: I'm looking forward to Animal Man, Action Comics, Wonder Woman, Batwoman, ummm...
I need a list...
prooker: Hawk and Dove.
mommy_made_of_nails: LIEFELD ALL DAY ERRYDAY.
I was thinking Milligan's Red Lanterns but after Secret Seven I'm not sure.
prooker: The thing about Milligan is he's extremely hit and miss in his mainstream work.
mommy_made_of_nails: Umm what else is there? What are you looking forward to?
prooker: Well my pull list for this coming month are:
Animal Man written by Jeff Lemire and Travel Foreman which is looking to just be a gorgeous book
Action Comics which you really don't need to say anything more than Grant Morrison writes Superman, but Rags Morales doesn't hurt
Swamp Thing by Scott Snyder and Yanick Paquette
mommy_made_of_nails: Oh I forgot all about that one. Snyder's a real up-and-comer.
prooker: Yeah his run on detective comics will be one of those books in bookstores that just everyone will sit down and read all the way through.
mommy_made_of_nails: Need dat trade.
prooker: And Paquette's work on batman Inc was rad.
Batwoman by J.H. Williams and Amy Reeder, which really has nothing to do with the reboot
Oh Batman as well also written by Snyder and drawn by Greg Capullo, one of those Image guys, but his work as of late looks pretty great.
mommy_made_of_nails: Oh man! I'm gonna be so broke.
prooker: Yeah! who said the new 52 didn't do it's job? I'm already getting more comics than I used to.
mommy_made_of_nails: Neckbeards.
prooker: Also I might - MIGHT - pick up Hawk and Dove.
mommy_made_of_nails: Too much Matt Seneca trying to convince you Liefeld is good.
prooker: ahahaha no way man, I hate seneca most of the time. He can be such a douchebag. He fucking smoked an issue of the new Punisher comic. That is so dumb.
mommy_made_of_nails: Hahaha that's dangerous. Silly Matt.
prooker: Anyways what's on your "Stay away, FAR AWAY" list, also known as the "Burn it with Fire" list.
mommy_made_of_nails: GRIFTER.
TEEN TITANS.
The Krul stuff.
prooker: Watch all those things become DC's flagship properties for the next century.
mommy_made_of_nails: Wait Johns isn't doing Flash anymore is he?
prooker: Nope Manapul is on it with both art duties and writing.
mommy_made_of_nails: I could get into that.
prooker: So I'll check it out because i DESPERATELY want to like a Flash comic.
mommy_made_of_nails: Ummm what other comics are there? I'm kind of ignorant...
Superboy. Don't like the art.
prooker: What?? R.B. Silva is on it! The guy who did the brilliant Jimmy Olsen backups in Action Comics
mommy_made_of_nails: Don't like the cover.
OH DUDE. DUDE. WE FORGOT FRANKENSTEIN. That looks awesome.
prooker: Frankenstein leads an elite taskforce of monsters. SOLD.
Jeff Lemire doesn't hurt either.
mommy_made_of_nails: Exactly.
prooker: Ok just to add, I just saw some preview pages of Justice League International. And apparently the whole 80's JLI is TOTALLY REBOOTED.
NO BLUE AND GOLD BOOSTER AND BEETLE
NO MARTIANS LOVING OREOS
NO BWAHAHAHAHA
NO ONE MORE PUNCH
mommy_made_of_nails: I'm so sorry, prooker. So so sorry.
prooker: While I cry into my pillow, I think this is a good point to end at. I really hope that these new comics will be absolutely phenomenal and I wish all the creators the best of luck.
Especially you Mr. Liefeld.
mommy_made_of_nails: I'm looking forward to more DC Comics than I have in a long time.
Except Grifter.
